2021 NFL Honors Discussion Thread
12 min read
2021 NFL Honors Discussion Thread
Vincent Verhei
10 Feb 2022, 07:33pm
Winners of the NFL’s most prestigious awards and newest members of the Pro Football Hall of Fame will be announced tonight. We will update this story as award-winners are announced.
MVP: Aaron Rodgers, QB, GB
Offensive Player of the Year: Cooper Kupp, WR, LAR
Defensive Player of the Year: T.J. Watt, ER, PIT
Offensive Rookie of the Year: Ja’Marr Chase, WR, CIN
Defensive Rookie of the Year: Micah Parsons, LB/ER DAL (unanimous choice)
Comeback Player of the Year: Joe Burrow, QB, CIN
Coach of the Year: Mike Vrabel, TEN
Assistant Coach of the Year: Dan Quinn, DC, DAL
Hall of Fame Inductees:
- LeRoy Butler, DB, GB
- Bryant Young, DT, SF
- Sam Mills, LB, NO/CAR
- Cliff Branch, WR, OAK/LARD
- Richard Seymour, DT, NE/OAK
- Art McNally, official
- Tony Boselli, OT, JAX
- Dick Vermeil, HC, PHI/STL/KC
Walter Payton Man of the Year: Andrew Whitworth, OT, LAR
Moment of the Year: Justin Tucker’s 66-yard field goal to beat DET
FedEx Air and Ground Players of the Year: Tom Brady, QB, TB, and Jonathan Taylor, RB, IND
Fan of the Year: Henry Ison, ATL
Celly of the Year: Christian Wilkins, MIA, DT, for worm/spinarooni celebration against NYJ
2
CBPOTY
Burrow: 28
Dak: 21
Derwin James: 1
Burrow played more than half the season. Dak was my choice
12
I’m not a fan of this…
I’m not a fan of this selection. Like you said, Burrow played over half of last season and this year was only his second season. That’s not a comeback, that’s just a young player’s second year progression.
3
DPOTY
Watt: 42
Parsons: 5
Donald: 3
Legggooooooo Badger legend
4
Finally Butler!
Still took too long
5
I am now annoyed. Both Ware…
I am now annoyed. Both Ware and Allen didn’t make it. Just wow.
I am happy for Bryant Young who I didn’t watch but have heard a lot of plaudits for. But still…I am unclear what criteria those other two were lacking.
18
Being sixth and seventh isn…
Being sixth and seventh isn’t necessarily lacking as much as just being an ordering thing. It’s the problem with a hard cutoff – you can’t tell if they missed by a fraction, or a mile
Best guess is that they somewhat blocked each other, and voters couldn’t split Young & Seymour, so both DTs went in, while both ERs wait a year. I don’t think there’s anyone saying that Ware & Allen aren’t missing on some criteria – just that maybe 8 or 9 players were worthy, but only five are allowed in
For this reason, I think I prefer the baseball process for voting – get a certain percentage, and you’re in, regardless of who else is eligible. This might mean some years there is a really big class, and some years a really small one, but at least it’s consistent.
Of course, in practice, this is drivel, given that players vote percentage tends to trend over time – which is insane, since they’ve all stopped playing, and they can’t be doing anything to make them more or less worthy once they’re retired!
6
I am surprised Sam Mills got…
I am surprised Sam Mills got in over Patrick Willis and Zach Thomas, as we’re putting in linebackers. Heck, I’m surprised they put in Bryant Young over Willis if we’re putting in a 49er. And I’m very surprised none of the receivers made it through; they’re smashing into each other in the backlog and keeping each other out, I would imagine.
But not a bad class at all, and I’m very glad Richard Seymour got in after hanging on the ballot for a while.
8
Richard Seymore
But over DeMarcus Ware or Jared Allen? All three guys were traded and one of those three did not replicate the way the other two did. Okay so maybe Seymour plays a position that is a bit harder to judge, but it’s still quite informative.
I just don’t understand what the reasoning was against Allen and now Ware could be.
9
I’m with you on Ware, or at…
I’m with you on Ware, or at least that he’s AS worthy as Seymour. My five coming into this was [Willis/Thomas], [Wayne/Holt/Johnson], Seymour, Ware and Butler. I do get finally putting Boselli in as well; short career but great while he was actually playing. I’d have put Ware in before Young and possibly Mills, though I think I may be underrating Mills USFL career — three All-USFL nods, two championships. It is the Pro Football Hall of Fame, after all, not the NFL Hall of Fame.
I think Allen was a clear rung below the Wares of the world, though your mileage may vary.
13
Can you expand on why Ware…
Can you expand on why Ware over Allen clearly?
As an aside, I’ll be honest. No one did careful film study charting during Seymores prime. Or for that matter anyone else in the periods prior who never touched the ball. We are sort of left at the mercy of All pro tallies based on voters who have questionable motives to say the least. One can easily imagine a winners bias. So that means guys like Shaun Ellis or Kyle Williams who toiled away on bad teams are going to get the short end of the stick.
But let’s go with Seymore. It’s sort of taken as gospel that Seymour is a Hall of famer, but I believe this is partly a function of the fact that the Patriots won a lot and that there’s a sense of moral indignation that they don’t have more Hall of famers. But I believe the Patriots run is built mostly on Brady, Dante Scar, and Belichick coaching than a particular collection of Hall of famers. Seymour, if he is a hall of famer, certainly didn’t put that on display in Oakland so it makes me question his validity over Ware in that respect. Allen was so great that he could go anywhere and do well and he did
16
Seymour wasn’t a better…
Seymour wasn’t a better player than Shaun Ellis. 57.5 sacks to 73.5. Seymour has the three All-Pros from 2003 to 2005 though. But remember he had Wilfork and Warren on the line with him. I’d rather Wilfork made it, but that’s not going to happen. Joe Klecko had two All Pros, four Pro Bowls and also had 78 sacks, and he’s not getting in. Seymour needs to mail some flowers to Brady ASAP.
23
Seymour I feel rides in on a…
Seymour I feel rides in on a ringz argument. Of the dynasty Pats, really only Brady and a lesser extent Welker’s skill traveled with them — and Welker was an import anyway. Gronk gets an asterisk both ways, as he traveled with his QB, but was also acknowledged as a shell of his former self. But most of the Patriots didn’t take their skills with them when they left, which strongly suggests they were elevated by the system in which they played.
He had two good seasons with Oakland, but even in his rewarded seasons, Tommy Kelly was putting up better numbers at the same position, but he didn’t have three rings and four SB appearances. But someone from the front seven was getting in, and it ended up being Seymour.
15
I might be a bit of a homer…
I might be a bit of a homer on this, but I felt Willis should have been an easy choice over Mills and Thomas.
17
As a fellow 49ers fan, I…
As a fellow 49ers fan, I would point out that although I also think Willis is better than Mills and Thomas, I disagree that it’s an easy decision. Some points to mull over:
- Willis had a comparatively short career – that matters if you’re thinking about total career value. Willis played 112 games compared to ~180 for both Mills and Thomas, plus Mills had 3 years in the USFL
- MLB became less important over time, so Mills and Thomas were (comparatively) more important to their teams than Willis was
- Voting for Willis ahead of Thomas and Mills is basically saying that you’ll never vote for Mills & Thomas – I doubt voters are ready to make that statement (even to themselves) which makes it easier to talk yourself into Mills or Thomas
I can therefore understand how a voter can talk themselves into Mills ahead of Willis (particularly in a “I’ll vote for Mills this time, and Willis next time” kind of a way)
I disagree with it, but I understand it
20
Mills seriously shocks the…
Mills seriously shocks the heck out of me, although I’ll fully admit to dismissing the USFL period. Young, too.
It’s not that I don’t think Mills is deserving, I just didn’t think he had a chance in hell of making it. No big impact stat totals, very few accolades, and teammates with more of both. Absolutely the kind of candidate that gets ignored, as confirmed by the fact that he was ignored for so long.
Makes Zach Thomas a friggin no brainer in the future, though. (Even more than he was!)
Mills getting in clogs up the ballot more, though, since otherwise he would’ve dropped off. Maybe we’ll get lucky and Hester will be one of the super rare people who drops down from finalist level.
29
This was a “line them up in…
This was a “line them up in order of how long they (or their families) have waited” situation. I feel certain Thomas gets in in 2023 and Willis will queue up behind him.
7
They need to make a position…
They need to make a position grouping award of the year because no one who doesn’t touch the ball it’s going to be recognized on offense. And rarely will people who don’t put up counting stats on defense get recognized.
21
Same problem with Super Bowl…
Same problem with Super Bowl MVP. If a QB regularly has 3+ seconds and ends the game with a reusable jersey, he wasn’t the MVP.
10
Good HoF class overall
Very happy both Butler and Young are now in. I’m fine with the rest of the class, though I wouldn’t have voted for Mills or Boselli who I think are Hall of Very Good. But Butler and Young along with Seymour and Branch more than make up for it.
11
*puts on homer hat*
Burrow…
*puts on homer hat*
Burrow over Dak? For real? Looks less bad with him in the Super Bowl, I guess, but man. Parsons was blindingly obvious but cool that he was unanimous, Quinn I’m happy for but also kinda ambivalent about.
Disappointed Ware didn’t get into the Hall, but I won’t be too mad for another couple of years.
*takes off homer hat*
14
I think there’s a lot of non…
I think there’s a lot of non Dallas fans that would agree with you though. Burrow as CPOTY doesn’t make sense to me.
19
Not a Dallas fan either, but…
Not a Dallas fan either, but I agree Dak should have been the choice. As has been mentioned above, Burrow played over half the season. And not to minimize Burrow’s injury, but Prescott’s injury looked absolutely devastating….to the point where in real time some were wondering if he would be ready for the start of the following season, and questioning whether he would remain at the same level of play.
22
If Cincy loses in the first…
If Cincy loses in the first round Burrow doesn’t get this award, Dak does. This is becoming another unwatchable – and somewhat unfathomable – set of awards.
24
Pretty sure they’re submitted
Long before then. Otherwise Zac Taylor gets COTY and Kupp gets more MVP votes.
30
That’s what I don’t…
That’s what I don’t understand about it… maybe I’m just too plugged into FO vs “traditional” media, but I don’t remember hearing all that much Burrow love until at least the win over the Titans. I wonder if the regular season win over the Chiefs gave him the “highlight reel moment” that pushed him over, especially since the Cowboys seemed to have their worst games in the national spotlight. Which is a dumb way to vote, but hey.
25
RE: Butler
Very glad for LB. I understand there are folks who think GB has too many players in the HOF. But Butler was the best overall defensive player on a very successful team for an extended period. Won’t bother with the individual honors as folks here know those as well as anyone.
Great player, better person
26
RE: Watt
Really glad for TJ. Well done ex-Badger!!
27
I am mildly surprised…
I am mildly surprised Rodgers won the MVP. No judgement implied, but missing a game due to Covid, lying about getting vaccinated and then turning around and blaming everyone else for starting a witch-hunt was and did draw ire from potential voters. You couple that with a very muddled class of candidates and I thought Brady was the favorite though I was hoping Kupp would get it.
31
NFL voters for awards and…
NFL voters for awards and the Hall (two different but overlapping voter sets) do a much better job of compartmentalizing on-field accomplishments and off-field issues than, say, MLB voters, who think they are a College of Cardinals.
28
Hey, Mike Tanier here! My…
Hey, Mike Tanier here! My brief Hall of Fame thoughts:
As expected, this was a clearinghouse year for longtime finalists Boselli, Butler and Seymour. Mills was a modest surprise: this was his final year on the traditional ballot before getting shunted over to the Seniors category, and the pro-Mills contingent of the selection committee apparently put its foot down, something which does not often happen. (See Clay Matthews and Joe Jacoby, among others). Mills’ induction likely blocked fellow linebacker Zach Thomas’ path to entry; Thomas was the biggest “snub” this year but is now positioned to get waved through in 2023.
Young’s swift induction is also a moderate surprise. Young’s support among former players and coaches was overwhelming, and the committee likely decided that there was no point in making him wait. Young’s induction does create potential logjams at other positions. Wide receivers Torry Holt, Andre Johnson and Reggie Wayne all remain on the ballot, with Steve Smith and others backing up in the semifinalist queue, while Jared Allen and DeMarcus Ware are about to be joined by many other edge rushers.
One more thought before we open up the board: with Branch joining Drew Pearson and Harold Carmichael among 1970s wide receivers in the Hall of Fame, Lynn Swann and John Stallworth no longer look like egregious “COUNT THE RINGZ” selections. My pet project for the Seniors Committee is now Louis Wright, the Broncos cornerback of the late 1970s and 80s who, I believe, is more deserving than his teammate and popular cause celebre Randy Gradishar.
https://www.footballoutsiders.com/extra-points/2022/2021-nfl-honors-discussion-thread
Chase: 42
Mac Jones: 5
Creed Humphrey: 2
Rashawn Slater: 1
SMH at Jones